BAD FOLD?

[WK83]

game 1/2 @ casino. avrg stack 500. okay so i am in seat 8, (10 handed) button is seat 10. UTG raises to $20 seat 3 calls,folded back to me with QQ. i raise to $47, folded to seat 3. seat 3 reraises all-in to $275. i fold, he said he had <results removed> after i showed my fold. but he had only raised 3 times in 1.5 hours. good fold?:confused:

later on that evening i pick-up AK OTB, and raise $50 after a strattle and a few limpers he BB calls, same seat 3 calls w <removed by WD>. flp A-Q-6. BB checks, seat 3 raises $25 i reraise $125, he shoves all-in for $600. then procedes to cover his face with both hands, after a few minutes i show and fold. <results removed> did i over play my hand?:mad:

[Mlubin]

i think the problem wasnt really the fold i think the problem was the size of the reraise in the first hand. Making it 47 on total as a three bet when the open was to 20 and there was one call. the raise size likely wont fold anything out and invites a shove or a 4 bet. as for the second hand i think the way you played it was good. Getting 300 bbs in on the flop with top top is very player dependent and the player needs to be crazy loose to ever consider it.

[Danielle Angel]

Firstly what he says he has and what he has are 2 different things. Personally with a re-raise like that it appears he didn't want you to call or had poc A's / K's. In reading this and how play folded out ....I would have actually put him on small pocket pair. Or as I said AA, KK.

Maybe good fold maybe bad fold, you will never know unless you actually saw his cards.



The other hand>> ..... you didn't over play your hand imo you did the right thing. Inviting someone to see free cards with that flop imo is stupid. He however clearly overplayed otherwise he would have dragged you along and wiped you clean. again imo ... this is something good for Mustardeggs, WD or Buldermar to answer :)

[Degen]

UTG raises to $20

UTG raise to 10 BB's? Is that normal? Is he a loose player? Warning bells would go off right here normally.

i raise to $47

Unless you did this just to see if he has AA or KK (planning to fold if he 4-bets you) then this is a bad play. If you are raising here for value then you need to raise it a lot more. UTG 20 + Caller 20 + Blinds 3 + Your call = Pot 63. You should put about this much on top of your raise. So make it 80-90, if you think they will call more, then make it 100 or 120.

Seat 3 then went all in for 275 and the UTG raiser folded (LOL what an idiot, 47+20+20+3 and he has to call 27 more to see the flop...). Ok so now you have a decision to call 228 more to win 47+47+20+3=382.

You have to KNOW he has AA or KK to fold here. If there is any reasonable chance he has AK, AQ, JJ, TT or some monkey hand then you have to call. Given that he flatted the first raise I'm more inclined to believe he has one of those monkey hands or exactly Ace King as a lot of people like to jam huge pre-flop with it so they don't have to see a flop.

So all in all I think you made a bad fold here...mostly because of pot-odds. If he had shoved for 500 this would be a much tougher decision.


later on that evening i pick-up AK OTB, and raise $50 after a strattle and a few limpers

Awesome. I want to get in this game. Pot is 1+2+4+4+4 and you make it 50 and get action. Excellent. (what I am saying is that is a huge raise, a standard raise here would be more like 30-35).

Now that he bets into you on that flop, the raise is not so bad, however after he jams over the top of you you have to put him on two pair or a set. Pretty easy fold here on the flop after the action.

Two things additional thoughts:

1. Stop showing your hand. Sometimes its ok in the right situation but with both of these you are basically telling the whole table 'I'm a tight player, please bluff me'. I have the read that you are in fact a tight player so you are giving them the wrong kind of information...you are telling them the truth. If you ever show anything it should be a bluff or a bad starting hand...so they think you are loose. Then they pay you off with the nuts.

2. When you post hands it is better to not show the results, so people given honest feedback. Then later after we have all argued about it you can say what you had if you want.

[WK83]

well first off i completely agree that i showed the wrong info on those hands, and i do bluff in position when i have the right read. i rarely show a bluff though. as far as the reraise in the original hand i should have called. the tables i usually play at min raise preflop is $18 and if utg makes it $18 its usually a 4 way pot. the tables at 1/2 play like 3/6, at the time i was thinking i wanted to be heads up on that hand.

[WK83]

oh yes $18 really normal $35 -$40 isnt uncommon either. when i raise to $12 in those games i get 8 callers

[Mlubin]

oh yes $18 really normal $35 -$40 isnt uncommon either. when i raise to $12 in those games i get 8 callers

Almost all small stakes live games that I've experienced play like this. I have seen nits open shove aces and get callers for 300 dollar stacks at 1-2 its just amazing how badly people can play live.

[WK83]

ya it really chaps my ass sometimes. bigger games are better, little less crazy.

[Degen]

ya it really chaps my ass sometimes. bigger games are better, little less crazy.

A better game is not one where people play good. These games are perfect. They just have high variance (http://wiki.theplayr.com/index.php?title=Variance) . That is why you need to have a big bankroll, to deal with the swings. If you have a 40 buy-in bankroll you just smile and say nice hand when some idiot sucks out on you.

[Matti Doogs]

WD pleasure reading your input on this, we have the same thing happen at Jupiters in Aus the $2.5/$5 table very often you get 5/6 callers on a 10BB raise, it is crazy sometimes and totally agree this is how you want it, just make sure you have the bankroll avail to shove in those chips when you have the nuts and rake in the big ones, Very often the pots here are well above $500.00 so if you are easily intimidated it can be a bit overwhelming but otherwise it is great value, also play at Crown in Melb, and find the play a lot looser at Jupiters due to being in the tourist strip with people happy to throw their money away while on Holidays.... Good to keep in mind for those thinking of coming to Australia